Women on the outside, again
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- September
- 5
You would think now that the tennis center has been renamed in honor of Billie Jean King, the USTA’s non-discrimination policy would be iron clad.
Instead, female reporters were kept out of the locker room as their male colleagues were allowed to pass in and watch as Andre Agassi got a standing ovation from the players after his final match. A day later, a male reporter was ridiculed for trying to track down a female player in the locker room.
There must be an even playing field—for the reporters as well. Male and female writers need to have access to the same rooms and information. Officially, writers of either gender have access to both locker rooms here, after a brief announcement asking players to cover up if an opposite sex writer is coming in.
But for years at the U.S. Open that has meant women are allowed in the women’s locker room and men in the men’s.
This isn’t the first time it’s happened here. I was denied access a few years ago, and after Pete Sampras won—another big moment—it happened again. And two days after the Agassi match, a female writer was denied access after Andy Roddick’s match.
An entitiy no less than the Supreme Court has mandated that female sports writers need to have equal access to men in order to do their jobs. The USTA was the first to offer equal prize money to men and women. Now it needs to enforce its policy of equal access for all—especially with Billie Jean’s name on the grounds.
Every other sport has found a way to deal with this. A few years ago I was denied access to a a PGA Tour locker room, and when my editors at The Journal News called the tour on my behalf, I was apologized to and it never happened again. The NBA, the NFL and Major League Baseball all have working policies.
Those leagues ended the days when writers like Lesley Visser had to chase down football coaches like Terry Bradshaw in the parking lot after the “real” interviews were done. He tried to sign her notebook. Some women were told to ask around the press room if they wanted quotes. Sometimes they got gems like, “We had a good game.”
So the women stood outside as Agassi was applauded by his peers after the last match of his career. The more things change…
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on Tuesday, September 5th, 2006 at 3:58 pm by Jane McManus.
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I’m amazed that anyone has access to locker rooms at the US Open. Not because it’s not a basic requirement for sportswriters to do their job, but because the WTA is so restrictive about controlling access to players. (I don’t know the men’s game.) Post-match press coverage always seems to consist of press conferences where WTA reps police the acceptable subject matter of questions very tightly.
That has been true about the WTA. I remember the year Jelena Dokic’s dad threw the salmon in the player lounge, we were told not to ask her about that. I believe she was 16 or so at the time, so that’s a mitigating factor, but it’s hard to say a reporter can’t ask a public figure about such blatant behavior.
The U.S. Open has always had an open locker policy for both genders. Certainly from the way one official reacted after a male reporter tried to get a comment from Justine, the WTA would probably prefer it didn’t.
Call me stupid, but if a bunch of naked men decide that they don’t want women to enter their locker room, what’s wrong with that? I suppose that in the same sense, men can now demand entry into women locker rooms. At that point I assume people will stop changing in their locker rooms…leaving us wondering why there even needs to be locker rooms anymore…
I would never say stupid, just uninformed. First of all, the “naked men” didn’t make the decision, security guards who were unaware of the official policy did.
Second, most lockerrooms have changing areas and nobody needs to be naked in front of anyone. When Shawn Bradley, a Mormon, played for the Nets, he was fully dressed head to toe by the time the writers were let in.
And I don’t think anyone complained.
Women are doctors, home health aides, occupational therapists and in other professions where they come into contact with the human form—and no one insinuates that they chose those jobs for ignoble reasons.
We are reporters doing our jobs, and need the same access to athletes that men do. And I agree with you on one point; ditto for the men with the women.
I’m glad to hear that things have changed in PGA locker rooms. I remember being denied access when I tried to enter the men’s locker room to interview Greg Norman, even though the sign on the door said “Players and Working Press Only” and I was wearing a “Working Press” badge. During the brief time I had opened the door (before the security guard slammed it shut), I saw that the locker room was in fact a lounge, and the players were fully clothed and being served drinks by women cocktail waitresses. No one stood up for me, and I ended up having to interview Greg’s caddie instead. This was around 1987. So I guess some things have changed.
I think common decency would dictate that a person of the opposite sex would not force athletes to embarrass themselves so the sportswriter can make money. I looks like common decency is in short supply these days.
(BTW, I don’t think anyone should be interviewed in locker rooms until everyone is dressed. I also know the leagues want the press in there to get “hot” quotes. It doesn’t make it any better.)
There should be a bathing and dressing area off limits to all but participants, and a lounge and interview area open to all accredited press. If (male) reporters only knew what twirps the athletes think they are when reporters act like they belong along side the athletes in the locker rooms.
The 1940’s are over. Reporters (male or female) shouldn’t be allowed in a locker room of any sport. It’s a tired tradition that every athlete hates. If you really want equality let the athletes have a say.
It’s a double standard, In most sports reporters have unrestricted access to men’s locker rooms, but are only allowed in women’s locker rooms for 30 minutes. So the women just wait till they are gone before changing and showering. Men do not have th this luxury. reporters can stick a mic in their face while they are taking their underwear off. As a society we value women’s privacy, but not men’s. If it’s a matter of equal access kick all reporters out, and set up an interview room.
Fritz,
That’s a popular misconception but it’s simply not true.
Take the NBA and WNBA, which is the best example and one of the few women’s team sports, which is when locker room access is usually an issue.
The locker room policy is the same for both leagues in they each get a 10 minute cooling off period—standard in all pro leagues. During that time, coaches talk to players, athletes shower and all have the opportunity to get dressed. The fact is, most female athletes choose to be fully dressed when reporters come in, while only some of the men do. During his entire pro career, a deeply religious Shawn Bradley was always dressed when reporters entered the locker room.
In all sports, women and men are allowed to enter the locker room for the same amount of time. Anything else is against the law.
I’ll take your word for it since you are in the business, but I always read and heard that in the WNBA, women’s college sports, and women’s soccer, reporters are only permitted in the locker room for 20 – 30 minutes immediately following the game, and the players remain in uniform until they leave. As opposed to mens sports where reporters have unrestricted access, and can pretty much come and go as they please. I was aware of the 10 minute cooling off period, and of Shawn Bradley. But is 10 minutes really adequate time to shower and dress? Maybe if they really hurry in the NBA, but what about the NFL? it probably takes them 10 minutes just to get all that equiptment off! I still think locker rooms should be off limits, set up interview rooms, and give the players some privacy.
This is from an article on the web—
NBA policy is that the doors are open 10 minutes after a game and remain so until after the players leave. For WNBA the doors are closed after 20 minutes so that female players can change. For the NFL the doors are kept open also. So male players have no choice but to get dressed in front of female reporters but the situation is totally different for female players.
If the situation had been reversed, it would never have been an issue. Men would have accepted that it had long been a general rule that you cannot go into the locker room of the opposite sex. Men respect women’s privay, women on the other hand have absolutely no respect for men’s privacy. It’s not just locker rooms, women will not even think twice of barging into a men’s rest room without warning. The overwhelming majority of men would never even think of going into a woman’s rest room. And if he did he would be arrested!
Remember Lisa Olson? She was made out to be some kind of victim, but there was something that the media downplayed. Before the infamous incident several players had complained about her stating she always stood somewhere that gave her a clear view of the shower area.Of course the powers that be did nothing for fear of being called sexist, holding women back, blah blah blah! Now the showers are off limits to reporters but in some locker rooms, especially the older ones, they are visible from the locker area.I am not condoning what happen, but I can understand how the players would be upset at having a voyeur in their midst, and not being able to do anything about it.
I am a newspaper sports editor for a local suburban paper. ... I am male, so I don’t have the perspective of being a female reporter. Also, since I cover high school sports, I haven’t had occasion to venture into either male or female locker rooms for interviews. (Besides, I’m not sure I’d be allowed, because these athletes are still minors). Yet, I have strong opinions on this issue.
Personally, I think it is distasteful for both male and female reporters to demand access to locker rooms while the athletes are unclothed—fully or partially—and indisposed. ... How’d they like it if someone demanded to speak to them while they were taking a bath or in the middle of changing clothes?
There is no question female reporters should have the same access as their male colleagues. However, media outlets need to set better standards than those displayed so far. It is disgraceful that members of my profession would demand such instant access to athletes that they’d even invade their most personal of privacies.
Sometimes I think we reporters get so wrapped up in getting the scoop first and getting the story out, we lose sight of common decency.
Reporters should exercise common sense by respecting an athlete’s right to privacy. What does the freedom of the press matter if its members don’t have the respect of those around them?
I say, let the women and men interview the athletes—only after the latter have had time to dress.
Is it really necessary for sports reporters to still have locker room access?
The debate about female sports writers in men’s locker rooms has been raging for decades. But is it time to ban all reporters? The practice was initiated in the pre technology days when reporters had to meet a deadline without the benefit of computers. so they needed to get quotes as quickly as possible. In this day and age, it’s really no longer an issue. There is no reason why they can’t wait till the players are showered and dressed.
Actually, the immediacy of the internet means that there is more urgency to get information quickly today than there ever has been before. And writers are still on deadline, that hasn’t changed. Athletes can be dressed when reporters go in—and many are.
As for the comment about Daily News columnist Lisa Olson, all I am going to say is that I believe in free speech, but you could not be more wrong. That’s the kind of justification along the lines of “she asked for it” designed to smear her personally as a professional.
I never said she asked for it or deserved it, And I cleary said, I do not condone what happened, I merely stated I can understand how the players would be frustrated.Your neanderthal comment is exactly why the players cannot, and do not stand up for their rights. They will be labeled neanderthal, sexist etc. Ms. McManus I suppose you feel your rights are more important than the players rights. This is no surprise, it’s like that with the entire media. They could care less about anyone’s rights as long as they get their story. This is why you see reporters harrassing a grieving mother who’s child was just murdered! It’s ridiculous, freedom of the press is out of control.
You label her a voyeur, which implies she caused the situation. Blaming the victim dressed up in different terms.
As for comparing athletes giving interviews to grieving mothers, that’s an interesting analogy. Are they really giving up rights when they discuss what happened on 4th and goal in the last seconds of a game? I think you’d have a hard time getting anyone to march for the cause.
The leagues benefit tremendously from the coverage. They dictate the terms of player access, not the media, and it’s in the league’s best interest to humanize the players on the screen. They can close locker rooms and make athletes available in other settings, as many colleges do.
I’d also like to point out that I have never said anything other than women and men need equal access to athletes in order to do our jobs. I don’t care where that happens. Want to beam us to the moon for the presser, fine.
Interesting debate on this issue, here:
http://www.isubengal.com/messageboard/index.cfm?event=viewtopic&umessage_id=0e1192c7-fc27-4072-bc44-f66a881e1c10
All reporters, male and female, should wait outside the locker room, or in a private room.
I have never been inside a professional locker room, so I don’t know exactly what the situation is like, but I guarantee you if I were a pro athlete, no reporter would ever see me naked! Would always find a way to preserve my modesty. SO I don’t really have a problem with women in pro locker rooms, the athletes are aware they will be entering, and can adapt to the situation. That being said however, I do have a problem with women entering men’s restrooms, and locker rooms unannounced in every day situations as someone mentioned. Even if they are employee’s of the establishment and have a job to do, they should make sure the men have plenty of notice, and the area is clear before entering. I also don’t feel it’s appropriate for women to enter men’s restrooms at crowded events. I realize women’s rest rooms get long lines, and men’s do not, but that’s not our fault, and we shouldn’t have to suffer. it should be up to the establishment to remedy the situation without compromising men’s privacy!
Athletes DO NOT have to adapt, they are in the right place, doing the right thing. Reporters are the ones that have to “adapt” by waiting outside.
Australian job…
Well… Nice blog!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWtH3NfYQok
I am not even going to mention all that is wrong. I am just going to ask this, if the only objective is to get interviews them why:
-Is the reporter not only filming the players face and only the face?
-Why is the reporter filming all around?
-And by filming all around, is the reporter not missing the so important interview?
-MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHY IS THIS IN THE INTERNET? WAS THE WHOLE WORLD INVITED TO THE LOCKER ROOM?
-Paparazzi or Big Brother? Multiple choice is allowed.
This is just one “very civilized� example, I have full nudity, including high school minors and with female reporters staring at and obviously very excited. I am not going to post that in the Internet!
Mendel, In all fairness I viewed the entire video, and every player was either in uniform, wearing a towel, or fully clothed. And one player even got dressed while wearing the towel, without showing anything! Although there were several females who just appeared to be standing around without really having any business in there. Anyway, You appear to be a trouble maker, and that was not my intention when i posted the link on that message board, I was just hoping to attract a healthy debate.
Anyway for ms McManus, You were correct about the 10 minute cooling off period, but that is where the similarities end, after that in the WNBA they must leave after 20 minutes, in the NBA they can stay until the players leave. I do have a question though. What is the WNBA policy regarding male coaches? I would assume they have unrestricted locker room access, how cn you coach a team otherwise. SO I imagine there are men in the locker room while the women change.
If I have a different opinion from you then I am a “trouble maker�?
Maybe you are having “trouble� answering my questions, because you know I am right, but that is really not my fault.
And by the way, I was right about the “in the WNBA they must leave after 20 minutes�, that you found out only now to be true. If they know they just have to wait 20m(starting immediately after the game), obviously it is well worth to wait just a little in order to get full privacy and dignity. And male reporters are the ones that get many obstacles to get inside female locker rooms, just ask male reporters. If changing is not a problem because they have a towel, then I would like to see female reporters prove it by changing there, taking a shower there, interviewing the players with just a towel and in front of all the fully dressed male reporters, and in front of all the video cameras live, then dressing, JUST LIKE PLAYERS DO, after all is no big deal, right?. You know very well that just the fact that the opposite sex is in the locker room is not proper(many even find it erotic) and totally unnecessary, there are always ways to get the job done without violation the privacy of men and women. In the other forum my opinions are more explained.
You seem to have me pegged all wrong, I am on your side as I feel women sportswriters should not be allowed in mens locker rooms, and since it comes down to a matter of equal access, kick the men out too, can’t get more equal than that! My problem with you is that you come off as a trouble maker and a bully. It is possible to disagree with someone in a respectful manner! As far as the video, I have to be honest that I saw nothing wrong, all the players were covered at all times. The only thing I didn’t like is that there were 2 or 3 women standing by the entrance who did not appear to be reporters and were just chatting amongst themselves.They may have been employees of the team or facility, players wives, or something along those lines. I do not feel they should just be allowed to hang out in the locker room. If they have a job to do that is one thing, but it’s a locker room, not a lounge!
Fritz,
I can honestly say I don’t know when the policy states reporters have to get out of the locker room after the game because I don’t stay long. Most reporters go in, get quotes and get out. We’re not in there to run the clock.
As for women and male coaches, again, I think different teams probably have different arrangements. There are women who coach men in high school basketball, tennis and other sports. There are men who coach women those same years, and for the most part people manage to go about the business of coaching and work out these arrangements so that everyone is respected.
Women are doctors who have male patients, and hold other jobs where people interact on a professional level. Some of the comments here just seem to overlook the fact that men and women are, for the most part, acting like adults in many professional situations.
You can not even start to compare the medical profession with reporters, 1.reporters are simply not needed in the locker room, 2.and can not be more violation of privacy than a reporter in the locker room, its harassment, and in the case of the opposite sex it is sexual harassment.
Even if there were a woman Doctor for the team; unless it’s an emergency, there is absolutely no need for her to be in the locker room especially if they are not fully dressed, she can examine players later in the right place and where privacy and decency is respected. When life or health is at risk, even privacy comes to second place. Besides Medical Doctors deal precisely and only with bodies, it is a very especial situation. Even so, if a woman or man needs to see a Doctor and has issues regarding privacy, then he/she can chose to see a Doctor of his/her own gender, unless it’s a justified emergency. Even with Doctors, patients should only be “not fully dressed� if absolutely necessary, they only undress what is necessary, and only for the necessary time. And even with Doctors, cases of abuses are not uncommon. When reporters say they are acting professionally, its just that, !ACTING!, they like the situation and they like what they see, people can not push a button and turn off their natural feelings, and they can not push a button and turn homosexual for just a period of time, its not possible, when female reporters say they don’t like it, they are obviously lying. Reporters in the locker room is not interaction in a professional level, is harassment and sexual harassment in an indecent level. The only exception should be the medical profession and only if can not be avoided, only if there is a justified emergency.
I have to agree it’s a completely different situation. You can chose the gender of your doctor, and in the emergency room, and I have been there several times, you are never completely naked, and unless your problem is in thst area, you keep your underwear on.Besides A health care provider works on the human body, a sportswriter does not!
I have seen women reporters make the health care professional argument in the past, and I never bought into that. Doctors, and nurses sometimes need to see people unclothed in order to do their jobs properly, sports reporters do no! It’s like comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison would be political reporters. Do they demand access to George Bush’s bathroom? Think about it!
The reporter Jane McManus removed my comment from this forum; then she e-mailed me saying her actions were necessary because I accused her of “defending what Lisa Olson did�, and since Lisa Olson was never found to have done anything wrong, she thinks what I said is defamatory and could bring legal trouble to this forum.
-I don’t even specify what I think Lisa Olson did wrong; it can be many inoffensive things that are just a matter of personal opinion.
-Most importantly, if I said this on TV, even if defamatory and illegal, would the TV news station be in legal trouble? I don’t think so, I was the one responsible for my “illegal� opinion, and I would be the one getting in to legal trouble. In fact reporters like it very much when someone says something controversial or illegal.
I think she just didn’t like my opinion because I said bad things about reporters, and she is a reporter. I was interviewed before by a reporter, she omitted important parts of my comments, and even modified some of my quotes, and she was using a recorder! The conclusion must be that unprofessional behavior by reporters is common practice.
Will she use the freedom of speech ideal to delete this comment too?
And just in case you are wondering, maybe I was just accusing Lisa Olson of wrong doing because there was no need to use a lawsuit against the Pats; maybe I think it was too extreme and unnecessary. After all I remember one time a female reporter described what she saw inside a male locker room, even described body parts of players(mentioning names) and how much she liked those body parts, and how much she found players cute and attractive. She was not a sports reporter; she was covering another event near the locker room and got “curious�. Because she was not a sports reporter, she didn’t know she was supposed to hide her true feelings, so she made the mistake of writing that. Obviously females like the entire male body, not only the privates, especially if they are young, athletic and sport celebrities. She even mentioned how sexually aroused she was to see players using only a towel to cover the privates, so women think it’s erotic to see men getting out of a very intimate moment like a shower wearing only a towel(and that was always obvious to me, even with the female reporters pathetic denials). AND THE TEAM NEVER USED A LAWSUIT AGAINST HER.
SOURCE:Journalist Patti Shea writes 8/21/02 for the Santa Clarita Signal about her journey to the Los Angeles Dodgers lockerroom
And since I am mentioning bad behaviors, there are several cases of female reporters involved in love affairs with male athletes, which is the obvious result female reporters entering male locker rooms.
It might not be politically correct to say this, but there is a sexual element for many (most?) men in being naked in the presence of women. I doubt (but stand to be corrected) if this element is present in women to the same degree. A lot of men simply like it. Ask any female doctor or nurse about this and they will heartily concur.
So given this fact, and given the other fact that men, on average, are more voyeuristic than women, the two locker-room scenarios have very different dynamics, and should not be treated the same way. Where guys are involved anyway, there is just a whole lot more sexuality going on in both cases.
There is even a reasonably popular ‘mild fetish’ called CFNM which is ‘interested’ in the male locker-room scenario … google CFNM for a peek.
I don’t know what the answers are, but they should take into account these biological and emotional differences, I think.
Those differences are in your head. You are probably one of those guys that have that “mild fetish” you mentioned.
Mini Boi .. you’re living in some fantasy world if you don’t realize, or cannot accept, that there are huge differences in how the sexes respond to visual stimuli .. That isn’t to say that all women or all men react the same way, or to the same degree, but you’re delusional if you haven’t realized major general differences, unless you’re 8 years old or something like that. Geesh.
It’s also none of your business, and irrelevant to this discussion, where my sexual interests lie. Grow up.
I can indicate you numerous sites about people that like to “flash� themselves, REAL amateur people, not commercial, and you will see that there are even more women than men. That visual stimulation argument is a misconception, I know how women respond to visual stimulation, it’s a HUGE shock reaction, and it’s a much bigger reaction than men have when they see women naked or think about it, women just hide their feelings by nature and they don’t want to look like perverts. “That isn’t to say that all women or all men react the same way, or to the same degree�, EXACLY, that means what is irrelevant to this discussion are those differences.
Wayne, that cfnm stuff is a fantasy created by the internet, I do not knopw any men who are into that. The debate here is about privacy for the players, not sexual fetishes. Speaking of which, did anyone see the Video from the Dallas cowboys locker room? The camera was aimed at a player with his head down after a dissappointing loss. In the backround a stark naked player walked by with his genitals clearly visible. this Actually aired on a Dallas news show! It’s things like this that make you wonder if it’s time to close the locker rooms to ALL media!
Mini Boi, in all fairness, The Patti Shea article angered female sportswriters more than anyone. They were outraged and made no secret about it complaining to both her, and her employeer. She was eventually forced to appologize.
Mini Boi
99% of those ‘women’ on those chatline sites that claim to love being flashed .. are fakes .. sneaky gay guys masquerading as women. Duh. I’m not saying some women aren’t interested, there is a wide spectrum … but the ‘seen one seen them all’ stereotype is very largely true. Get over it.
Fritz:
Sure it’s a fantasy, but an increasingly popular one. Google CFNM and get 1.4 million hits. Ask any female doctor about male exhibitionism. Heck ask the female sports reporters.
I’m not sure what is being debated here. I’m merely saying it is a different experience for men and women, for both the athletes and the reporters, and what is right for one sex, isn’t necessarily right for the other.
Wayne:
1. You don’t know what you are talking about.
2. Most importantly, I know you are into it, but let go already of that fetish thing, go talk about that to another forum.
Fritz:
1. Female sportswriters were outraged? I do NOT think so. Don’t you mean EMBARRASSED? Embarrassed for sure, because their obvious lies about how they don’t like to enter the opposite sex locker room, and how they don’t like what they see, were finally confirmed as obvious lies.
2. And do you think that video from the Dallas cowboys is such a big thing, compared to other videos that’s NOTHING! Media in the locker rooms it’s just not proper for many obvious reasons.
Wayne you contradict yourself, you say women are not voyeuristic like men, but you bring up CFNM which is a fetish which involves nude men for women’s viewing pleasure! A major part of this fetish is male strippers for women! So you are proving yourself wrong, women do like to look!
SA, are you sure women get sexually aroused by looking at the opposite sex? I find that very hard to believe!
SA
No contradiction. Women are not voyeuristic, in general. By and large they are pretty neutral about naked guys. Visual stimuli just isn’t part of the typical female makeup. It just isn’t important to them.
That is not to say that some aren’t somewhat interested at some level. I suspect the CFNMers are somewhat deluded, and/or hopeful that they run into one of the few that IS somewhat interested. It’s a harmless fantasy to them, like most fetishes.
I think if you plop a typical female down into a roomful of naked guys, or onto a nude beach, where she feels completely safe and not threatened at all, you will get a number of reactions including amusement, bemusement, minor titillation at first probably in some, some aesthetic interest in the better bodies. But what you won’t get is any kind of arousal … just not in the cards.
Wayne, you are so wrong, and then you contradict yourself again. Most importantly…you have problems…seriously!
Thanks everyone for posting here. I have edited the link out of SA’s post because I don’t want links to nude videos.
I’m also not comfortable with personal attacks on individual sportswriters.
I am happy to help provide a forum for opinions are far from my own, (and which seem to bring in topics that are way, way beyond anything I’ve even heard discussed) but please keep it from getting graphic.
Journalists publish opinions of people criticizing(“attacking� in your own words) individual sportswriters, it’s just freedom of speech. You are not comfortable because you’re a sportswriter yourself, but that doesn’t give you the right to delete opinions of that nature, especially being a reporter. In the case of Patti Shea, one of the organizations that was SMART enough to criticize(“attack�) her was the Association for Women in Sports Media.
There is a difference between finding fault with a document someone has written and personally smearing the author. That’s the line. Freedom of speech has established boundaries such as defamation and yelling “fire” in a crowded movie house.
Using all caps, accusing other posters of having personal problems, assuming yourself to be an authority on what women think despite having never been one (I assume); that’s all permitted even though it’s not conducive to a civil discussion.
Patti Shea did apologize for her article, that doesn’t excuse it, but at least she saw the error in it. Here is a link to her apology, don’t worry, no nudity LOL!
http://www.awsmonline.org/thesignal.htm
“Smearing the author�, you called the user SA a Neanderthal!
Reporters are the ones that know no boundaries, selling news is the priority, and everyone knows that.
I don’t use all caps. You found his topic to be very weird too(“topics that are way, way beyond�).
However I must apologize for so wrongly presuming that females are attracted to the opposite sex, I don’t know what I was thinking, and I am sure Patti Shea was just kidding about how much she found players to be attractive, females have absolutely no sexual desires. Again, I am sorry.
“Despite having never been one (I assume)�, I suspect that this comment might be considered smearing the author.
You suspect wrong. I have never met you, so I wouldn’t know what gender you are. I am assuming you are a man.
I think having restricted locker room access actually hurts the women’s teams. Women’s team sports are no where near as popular as their male counterparts. If the media where allowed full access to the players, the publicity could only help. And I am sure most of the players wouldn’t mind since they could use all the publicity they can get!
Reporters have plenty of time for interviewing female athletes .Women’s team sports are no where near as popular as their male counterparts because they just don’t have near the performance their male counterparts have, just one example WNBA. Women themselves just don’t like most women sports; some men watch some women sports mainly because they found some players to be attractive. Female players value their privacy, and all the publicity can be done outside the locker room for all the time in the World.
You are sure most of the players wouldn’t mind?? Even if so, how about the players that do mind??!
The only reason Patti Shea apologized is because of the complaints from the AWSM. If it had just been the players complainin, she would never have apologized because reporters just don’t care how the players feel!
On August 2004, NBA started banning reporters from using mobile phones in the locker room, because photos of players changing and photos of nudity started appearing on the Internet!
It’s the way reporters say thank you. From the moment a picture is on the Internet, it will spread and stay there forever, that person privacy and dignity could never be repaired. Even in the medical profession, Doctors are not allowed to share information regarding their patient’s private parts anatomy, but reporters think they can share pictures and videos. What reporters learn in college about professional ethic and common sense, is that selling news is always the priority. Why don’t reporters share pictures and videos of themselves? I am sure it will sell. Reporters value their own privacy, just like everyone else.
There must be measures to prevent those kinds of abuses from happening again, and the only way to make sure is to ban all reporters from the locker room.
Concerning Lisa Olson, the thing that always struck me as odd is that this was 1990 or 91, women first gained locker room access in 1975, so i am supposed to believe that after 15 years the patriots suddenly decided they didn’t want women in the locker room anymore? Or was it just one particular woman they had a problem with? Other women were in the locker room that season without incident. I wasn’t there, and I am not trying to demean her, but it is possible that she did something to upset them. If a player feels his rights have been violated, he should be able to complain without being called a neanderthal! I once belonged to a gym, and on more than one occasion female cleaning people walked in to the men’s locker room unnanounced. This made me unconfortable so I complained to management, and the problem was promply corrected. It wasn’t company policy, the women just assumed they could walk in without warning, which shows you how much women repect men’s privacy! After i complained no one called me a neanderthal, or accused me of being sexist! Why should it be any different for pro athletes? If a female athlete complained about a male reporter, you know damn well something would be done about it!
SA, concerning Lisa Olson, that’s exactly what I always toughed about the incident, that oddity is obvious. And about cleaning ladies, you are right, and I can assure you it happens everywhere in different Nations, and restrooms too, it’s just their nature. If males don’t want to be violated in their most fundamental rights by females then they are called male chauvinists, it’s truly amazing!
A female cleaning lady is just any other woman, just because she is a cleaning lady gives her no right to enter male restrooms if men are inside using it. Let’s imagine the scenario of a female plumber that has work to do in a shopping mall male restroom, and the work can not wait until the mall closes to the public. She must knock at the door and tell something like “maintenance, can I go in?�, she must not allow anyone else in and wait until everyone get out, only then she can go in to do the work, and the door should be closed with a sign informing people that the restroom it’s temporary on maintenance.
Yes, cleaning ladies just walk right in, it happened to me a few times, and to some of my friends too. Once I was using a restroom, one of those restrooms that when you get in you can see the urinals; a cleaning lady just walked in, and she looked directly and saw my privates and laughed!! Normally I would love if a woman enjoys seeing me, but not if against my will, not in that disrespectful manner.
Mendel.
Did you felt offended, abused and violated? Does that mean MEN HAVE FEELINGS TOO?!! Careful, with statements like these you might be accused of being a chauvinistic male!!!
Locker room interviews have become a way of life in pro sports. They greatly benefit the teams by bring you closer to the players, and showing you they are real people. The WNBA needs to eliminate time restrictions, and allow cameras in. I have never seen the inside of a WNBA locker room on the evening news, so i am assuming they either don’t allow tv cameras or the stations feel it isn’t worthwhile due to the restrictions, and that would be truly sad! The Wnba needs all the exposure they can get, they are killing themselves by restricting locker room access. The Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders get more publicity than the WNBA, and that needs to change!
Samantha.
According to you, if wasn’t for locker room interviews, people would think players were from the Planet Mars! “Closer to the players�, yes TOO CLOSE, just like paparazzi and Big Brother, its harassment and in the case of the opposite sex in the locker room it’s sexual harassment. People will know that players are from the Planet Earth and people will be closer to the players too if the interviews are done outside the locker room or in a private room, and with the extra bonus of bringing dignity back to sports, to reporters, privacy to the players, and dignity to the civilized society in general. If for some reason you were to be interviewed, would you like to be during your shower or would you prefer to be in an office?
The WNBA needs to eliminate reporters from the locker room. What need to change are reporters in locker rooms. Slavery have became a “way of life� too, then people became gradually more and more civilized, but reached the top and now civilization is stepping BACK in so many fundamental values; the question is, when it’s allowed to cross the line then where does it stops? It doesn’t!! What’s next? In the end, it will be bad for everyone.
What GREATLY benefits the players and the teams is how good they play the game.
There is no need for interviews to be in the locker room; and it’s wrong on so many levels, especially since reporters of the opposite gender have the same access.
I did not know the whole Patti Shea story until now, and I think it’s outrageous. The woman was in Dodger stadium covering another event when on a whim she decides to go in the Dodgers locker room just out of curiosity. She wasn’t even a sportswriter, and was not their to interview anyone. She should never have been allowed in. Then she proceeds to describe the players private parts, and her paper actually prints it! This is ridiculous, she should have been fired! Apology was not enough. And who ever let her in the locker room should have been fired as well. They should not just let women in for the hell of it! What’s next, will they let fans in to satisfy their curiosity?
Radcuff.
Fans ALREADY go in to satisfy their curiosity, at least virtually. It’s showed on TV, you can find photos and videos on the Internet.
So, you must ask again “what’s next�, and next, and next…
Radcuff, you are wrong about one detail, she was there without the intention to interview players, which means she is just like any one in the public, she simply can’t go in. Not only fired, she should be arrested because if a man just walks in a female locker room or restroom he could be arrested, especially if it’s proven that he was only there to admire players/women naked, and if you think about it that is exactly what she did! It was not only wrong, it was very illegal.
Want to hear something that was outrageous? At the time of the Lisa Olson incident, I was living in Philadelphia. The Philadelphia Daily News wanted to send a woman in to a locker room to see what would happen. Unfortunately, they had no female sportswriters on the staff, so ready for this? They sent their gossip columnist into the Phillies locker room! She had absolutely no business going in the locker room, other than to prove she could! She even admitted she was not that big of a sports fan. To their credit, The phillies players handled the situation very well, they were polite to her, and answered all of her questions, even though her questions had nothing to do with baseball. I wrote a letter to the editor telling them how ridiculous I thought the whole thing was. the letter was not printed, and I never heard from them.
Shortly after this, the daily News hired sportswriter Jennifer Frey, who herself had previously been involved in a locker room incident in Detroit. She had walked up to a naked baseball pitcher, and asked for an interview, he responded ” I do not talk to women when I am naked, unless they are on top of me, or I am on top of them!”
Trying to interview people when they are still naked, is that surreal/bizarre or what? Especially if we are talking about different genders. Well, I got VIDEOS of that! When money(not to mention other not noble interests) is involved, everything is possible. The priorities are getting more and more mixed up as the time passes. People are getting selfish, insensitive, insensible and perverted by the second.
The player who said that to Jennifer Frey was Tigers pitcher Jack Morris. He never approved of women in the locker rooms. This was 1990, and she was a young intern for the Detroit Free Press.
why shouldn’t athletes resent female presence in a locker room? In this civilization, bodily privacy is probably one of our most fundamental rights. It’s always been a given that locker rooms and dressing rooms are single-sex environments. Unfortunately, all of this is trashed at the expense of “equal opportunity,” and athletes who don’t like getting caught (quite literally) with their pants down are put on the defensive by the political correct police.
I am confident that male sportswriters covering women’s sports have nowhere near the level of locker-room access given to female sportswriters who cover men’s sports. Could you imagine the outcry if the privacy of female athletes was routinely compromised by male sportswriters?
@Stu
You are suggesting male reporters should only be allowed in male locker rooms, and that female reporters should only be allowed in female locker rooms. “Equality of opportunities� is obviously a right concept, but there must be a exception when men/women privacy is disrespected by the opposite sex, this in order to protect the privacy and dignity of both men and women, both genders would be grateful for that exception(that currently doesn’t exist).
And in the great majority of professions it’s perfectly possible to do what you suggest without compromising “equality of opportunities� or “privacy�. A few examples are, locker room managers, cleaning people, and even in the case of coaches; they all can do their jobs without the need to enter the opposite sex locker rooms or restrooms when they are being used, there are many ways to avoid that, it’s perfectly possible, and both genders will be thankful and respected.
However in the case of sport reporters, it’s not possible to do what you suggest because that profession is a special case, and by doing what you suggest the “equality of opportunities� would not be respected. It’s a special case because male sports are more popular; and even if the popularity was equal, each individual interview is unique because each individual person interviewed has its own views(male and female reporters should be allowed to interview all the same persons). If there was no possible way to combine the two rights(“equality of opportunities� and “privacy�) then what you suggest would be the right thing to do, because “privacy� it’s a fundamental right that people value more by nature(the example of female reporters having to do interviews with just a towel just like athletes it’s a good one. People just feel much more violated when their privacy is not respected, it’s almost like a sex offence), and therefore “privacy� override the “equality of opportunities�. But there is a way…reporters should interview players outside the locker rooms, and that is the only way, all the other suggestions of towels, etc are simply not enough, just the presence of reporters of the opposite sex inside the locker rooms or restrooms(!) is a violation of privacy and it’s disrespectful and not proper.
I only know of one(1) case where “equality of opportunities� and “privacy� can not be combined, and therefore privacy should override “equality of opportunities�; funny that in this case a few selfish females claimed the right to “equality of opportunities� and won(because the law have no exceptions), but now people are trying to change it back because females in general are the ones being much more affected than males, the measure was harmful to the both genders but especially harmful to females.
And for the ones that think equality is always the best thing to do or that is always possible, you are wrong. There are a very few rare cases that should be made exceptions. And that should happen simply because in reality…men and women are not equal!
Just a very simple and even funny example that covers the two topics of this forum(equality and privacy):
There is a female movement against war, called “breasts not bombs�. In some protests, there have been cases of some women arrested for public exposure and indecency, so they claim women have the right to be naked waist up because in the same situation men would not be arrested. It may seem at first that it is the same situation but not completely because men do not have breasts!! See? In reality the genders are not equal!! Are we learning yet?
In my opinion men should not be allowed by law to be naked waist up in public(except proper places/contexts(which makes all the difference) like the beach, etc), but obviously the offence is not nearly as serious as when women do it. Breasts are sexual organs(I have to explain everything!). Women in general like to see the chest of men, but obviously not nearly in the same degree as men like to see women’s chest; that is the NATURE of things, if you impose the equality law in this case, that will not change the way men and women feel BY NATURE about seeing the opposite sex chests, it would be an ARTIFICIAL measure, and because it’s artificial it would cause problems in practical terms.
Am I being a male chauvinist against women? Well, selfish feminazi forget that artificial measures like this one sometimes can be more prejudicial for women than for men. They forget that if it’s artificially equal; then if a man lifts the clothing of a women to expose her breasts then is not a big deal because if a women does that to a man its not a big deal, and if a man touches the chest of a woman then it’s not a big deal because if a woman does that to a man is not a big deal. I know that in some jurisdictions, that artificial equality law it’s already a reality.
What usually happens in reality is that obviously men will not take advantage of that artificial measure to start sexually abusing women, men in general are very protective(by nature) towards women(women are the opposite towards men). And even if a man remembers to take advantage of that artificial measure to sexually abuse women, usually what happens in reality is that if a woman want to expose her chest then its ok because of equality, but if a man exposes her or touches her then the equality argument would not be valid anymore and the man would be arrested, double standards like that are common because men protect women. In fact in the matter of equality, there are many double standards against men(many even by law), there are many things that could and should be equal, but in reality women have more rights than men. And ironically men gave(yes, men are still in power) those unequal rights to women because men(by nature) protect women.
I was a reporter for many years and have seen a lot of naked bodies just wandering around locker rooms. Most were men, some teenagers. I have also been examined completely naked by a woman doctor, which I doubt anybody on this blog has done. I don’t know exactly why but women and men most decidely have different views toward nudity ~ whether that is looking or being. And we are definitely more respectful toward women than men. The doctor/sports reporter thing is more similar than you realize. If men acted like women do about nudity then there would be few problems. Many men are very brazen about strutting about naked. Not many women will do that. And when I was examined by that woman doctor she was clearly the more embarrassed one. It’s the way men are thrown into the deep end when young. I used to swim nude at the YMCA with the Boy Scouts. I doubt if skinnydipping was allowed at the YW. Embarrassment about nudity would be unmanly, sissified. But it is common and accepted, feminine, for a woman to cover quickly. By the way, players can wait a few minutes before stripping to allow decency for both sexes in and around locker rooms.
It is not just a “few� minutes and you know it. And in fact there is not time limit for male athletes. If athletes(that are in the right place) sweaty and stressed from the game, can wait a “few� tiny minutes; then certainly reporters can wait just a “few� tiny minutes outside the locker room until players get out, to allow FULL decency for both sexes.
He is right about that, it is not a matter of a couple of minutes. If they do not manage to walk to the locker room, undress, shower and dress in the 10 minute cooling off period, his privacy is gone, because once reporters enter they can stay until the players leave, so he has no choice but to change in front of them. Where as female athletes just wait it out for 20 minutes, then when reporters leave, they change out of their uniforms.
I have never been in a professional team locker room that didn’t have a separate room, off limits to reporters, where athletes could change in total privacy if they wanted. They can play cards, get a massage, work with the trainer, all away from prying eyes.
And to repeat, because it seems to be getting lost here, the teams and leagues set the rules, not the press. No reporter is allowed to barge in, and no one is allowed to stay in once the team decides to end access.
There have been players who opt to use that privacy, and others for whom it is not an issue. They have that choice.
so how commen is it to actually see naked players? DO most of them at least make an attempt to cover up?
I have read most of the comments, and basically agree that men should be advised if women regularly enter their locker rooms.
I recall the Lisa Olsen incident, and remember back then(1990) that she was reputed to be a “looker”. Wasn’t it a natural “girl thing” for her to do so? Her problem was that she was too obvious about it, but I believe any straight woman will do a certain amount of “guy watching”, while in a men’s locker room.
I’m a regular poster to Visual Sensations for Women, and there is no doubt that women are visual; they just may not have the same initial reaction to this stimuli, as men do. If guys don’t cover up, women have a right to look! It is giving tacit approval to being observed by the opposite sex.
Doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, etc. may be professionals, but, like the reporters, they are not a-sexual. They do their jobs professionally, but still notice the opposite sex. We have been conditioned to think of them as “sexless”, but this just isn’t so! We have also been conditioned to only address them as, “Dr.Surname”. I see nothing wrong with addressing a near age, or younger doctor as, “Dr. First Name”, especially if said doctor calls me Donald. The honorific title is still being used.
Getting back to reporters, they are indeed both professionals, and sexual beings. I now accept women reporters in men’s locker rooms; going to a female doctor at the H.I.P.Center had much to do about relaxing my former attitude on this issue. All straight men would do some “girl watching”, if invited into a female locker room. Therefore, they have no right to criticize tactful(not sneaky) looks by the women, as they are doing the natural “girl thing”.
Developing a sense of comfort and security with the opposite sex is a healthy result of going to a woman doctor, or accepting female reporters in a male locker room.
Finally, Jane is right; equal access is critical for all reporters to do their jobs properly.
That separate room is not available everywhere.
Most importantly, that separate room is not the locker room; it’s not where they keep their locker or their clothes, it’s not where they have all the conditions and commodities to change, etc, it’s not the proper place, then the LOCKER ROOM would be useful for what??? To be forced in to a separate room to change would be ridiculous and harassment; players are not the ones that should adapt. AGAIN, then would be much more logical that REPORTERS are the ones that should be forced in to a separate room and out of the locker room!!!
Reporters THEMSELVES should be trying to persuade leagues to change their policies. Especially female reporters, there are many women that are against(and some are intimidated because of what people may think of them, etc) female reporters entering male locker rooms, for personal and/or religious believes, and therefore will never have the opportunity to become sports reporters even if they would like to. The current situation is not good for even women. Finally, even if leagues or teams chose to allow reporters in to locker rooms, society should not allow it, because it’s contributing to degrade society values. In the past, sports were considered to be family sports, but not anymore with all the indecency.
I believe the seperate room is actually the trainers room, now don’t some of the teams have female trainers, if so and a player does not feel comfortable changing in front of women he is out of luck!
Not to mention if a MALE player goes to change in that “separate room�, people most likely will joke with him for life, accusing him of being shy, sissi and even homosexual because he don’t like female strangers to see him naked. Or at least some players will think of him that way, even if they don’t express it. We all know how these things work.
That separate room for reporters could be at the entrance so that players going in or out always have to pass through there. And the reporter’s room could have many conditions and commodities to make their job easier and to make possible waiting moments less “uninteresting�. And that would not be a right, it would be a privilege.
SingleDonald, visual sensations for women is a site that glorifies the sexual abuse of men by groups of women, and it should be shut down! Anyway we are not discussing fetishes here, and I am sure Ms. McManus would prefer if we didn’t.
Ms McManus, While it’s true the locker room policies are set by the leagues, if the NBA, MLB,or NFL tried to set the same restrictions the WNBA has, reporters would be up in arms! The only pro men’s league that has restricted access is the NHL which set a 30 minute locker room limit. And from what I hear several sportwriters covering NHL teams are demanding this be lifted and they have full access!
With the exception of tennis, women’s sports just aren’t popular enough to warrent media attention, which is why the restricted locker room policy of the WNBA is no big deal for most reporters, because most of them could care less about the WNBA! The quality of play and the excitement level is no where near that of the NBA! If the WNBA were as popular, no doubt reporters would be demanding unrestricted access to the players!
As far as visual sensations for women, and other similiar sites. I agree thay should be shut down. Not only do they degrade men, but they also degrade women by implying professional women such as doctors, nurses, law enforcement officials, and of course reporters, actually enjoy humiliating men. Nothing could be further from the truth!
It’s my opinion that regarding athletes that are still minors; reporters should have the sensibility, conscience and decency not to enter the locker room, even if all reporters are of the same gender of the athletes.
Please, I beg of you, stay somewhat on topic. I think many of the bizarre topics brought up here should be continued elsewhere if you are so inclined. For the purposes of this forum, we are talking strictly about sportswriters and the people they cover.
At my high school, the athletic director just retired. He was an old man, and after 20 years I guess he had had enough. Anyway, the woman who replaced him (school’s first ever female AD) is about 30-something years old and has two kids (if that matters). Anyway, because it’s a traditionally male role, the AD’s office is attached to the boys’s locker room, and the only way in and out is to walk directly through the locker room. On the way out there are open showers that can be clearly seen as well as urinals. Is it appropriate for the AD to see these boys naked in the showers or at the urinals? If not what can be done about it? The arrangement right now is kind of getting me angry because I don’t want some lady watching me shower after gym class.
Male modesty/privacy is just not respected, if it was a male athletic director office inside the female locker room, that would never be tolerated; in fact I strongly doubt the male director would accept that situation himself, he would ask immediately for a temporary office until the situation is solved, men just have a lot more respect for women than women have for men. You can tell your Parents and the Principal, but since you are MALE…
If it was a 30 year old male watching high school girls, he certainly would be in PARADISE and would love to go to “work� everyday, but since it’s a female watching males, no one cares!! Or at least no one have the courage to go against that situation, because he will be called chauvinist or gay.
Kenny, I understand how you would feel. She should not be allowed access to the boys locker room under any cercimstance. Im sure they can make her another door to exit from. Let me tell you,,if it was a Male Athletic Director going through the girls locker room, do you think people would be so non-chalant about it. I think not,,,,you would be reading about it in the newspaper. She has no right to be in there. You need to go right to the School Board with this one. You are right and you “have” rights too.
It is inappropriate for any adult teacher to be present in the shower room of the opposite sex. If it were a male teacher in the female locker room, people would be outraged, it would be the top story on every news show, and the parents would be suing! Your feelings are perfectly valid, and I am sure the other students, at least some of them, feel the same way. Talk to your classmates, your parents, your teacher, and the principal, and get this fixed immediately.
Even if it was my childhood dream profession; if that profession involves me having to see not fully dressed people, I would only do it if these 2 conditions are true:
1st- It must be absolutely necessary and totally unavoidable to do so, for a good valid reason.
2nd- I can be certain that: all people allow me to do it at 100% AND they are really comfortably with it at 100%.
I may not be rich and I may not be very handsome, but that it’s not the most important and that don’t depend on me.
What is most important to me is my moral integrity, in this World, that is the only thing that depends entirely on me and that is the only thing no one can steal from me; that’s the only way I could feel a person and that’s the only way for me to sleep at night. These are my values, BUT THAT’S JUST ME. =)
Kenny
This is a lawsuit waiting to happen! I am assuming your parents don’t know. Tell them NOW! And make sure they get a lawyer.
I am surprised those 2 CFNM freaks haven’t posted telling Kenny he should be enjoying it!
He might get to “enjoy it” over time, because of the possible emotional trauma that can causes over time. He might become just like those 2 guys, if nothing is done about it. Violation of privacy goes against human nature, it’s a serious issue.
For Kenny- she probably isn’t watching you (at least I hope she isn’t). But something should be done because it is inappropriate. She needs to get another office.
@Samantha. That’s a typical female answer. Would you answer the same way if it was a male athletic director office inside the female locker room? I THINK NOT!
Samantha
I disagree about her not watching. What amazes me is that from Kenny’s story, it appears she just accepted the situation without requesting another office. This leads me to believe she is a “looker”. IMO any sensible adult in that situation would request a new office, and would refuse to use the current one!
Correction: Any MALE adult would request a new office.
Correction2:
-Every member of the opposite sex is a “looker� by nature.
-Even if not, looking by accident is unavoidable.
-More important then her feelings or what she might or might not do, there are always students that are uncomfortable(not to say most of them).
-Most importantly, is not proper(might even lead to some “situations�, one of those situations that happened a few times before is teachers with love affairs with students, but if it’s a female teacher then is only love, if is a male teacher he is sent to prison for many decades), AND IS DEGRADING SOCIETY VALUES. If society let that happen, then what’s next?
Yeah, not only female reporters in love with male athletes, some cases of female teachers having love affairs with students even made TV news, and when that happens women think is sooo cute and “only love�; but when is a male teacher, women think the guy should be “neutered� by women in public(and I am not kidding)!!
You have it all wrong, it’s actually the men who think it’s OK. I don’t rememeber her name, but when the story broke about the good looking blonde teacher who had sex with the 14 year old boy, guys were saying things like “he is the luckiest kid on Earth”, ” she is the hottest chick he will ever get”, ” she did him a favor”, etc. Women did not say things like this! The double standard is because of men not women. If a male teacher had sex with your daughter you would want him castrated, but if a female teacher had sex with your son, you would think it was OK! Admit it! Women would be outraged either way, but not men!
-It’s not just that one case, there were many. And “guys were saying�? I don’t remember any guy saying that! You heard that from a few kids maybe? And even boys, when they say that, they are just kidding, males in general want to look “macho�, especially kids. But what I remember clearly was GROWN UP WOMEN all around me and on TV saying and demonstrating FOR REAL their approval!
-If a male teacher had sex with my daughter I would not want him castrated(that is barbaric and not the right thing to do), and if a female teacher had sex with my son I would never think its ok; SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
-Women would be MUCH MORE than outraged if it was a male teacher, but if it was a female teacher they would think that is MUCH MORE than just OK. And men would not be outraged either way, if the victim was a female student, they would be blind with rage because men protect women by nature in a much greater degree than they protect themselves, but women attack men by nature and women sure protect themselves very much. Just admit it, if you don’t you will just be proving that you are weak in character.
“Women would be outraged either way�, wow that’s funny.
She is just angry because she knows I got her so good!
Her opinion “she probably isn’t watching youâ€?, really shows how outraged she is and how impartial(“either way”) women in general are. And she only said “it is inappropriateâ€? because she saw all the other comments so against it.
The problem really is (and this goes for both men and women)We tend to protect our daughters while throwing our sons to the wolves.If Kenny’s story were on the evening news, it would barely raise an eye brow, people would think that boys should be able to deal with it. But if it were the reverse situation, there would be outrage, protests etc, every one would be concerned about those poor girls having to shower in front of some perverted man! It’s just the way our society has been programmed, it’s wrong. but attitudes will be impossible to change!
@Deron.
You are right, that’s what I was saying; both men and women act that way in general BUT not in the same degree:
Men act in a much more rational logical and consistent way, on both cases(if is a male offended buy a female or a female offended by a male).
Women in general tend to be emotional illogical and selfish; if it’s a male offending a female just a little bit then he must take unbelievable punishments, if it’s a female offending a male in terrible ways then it’s not a big deal it’s even funny and she must take just a very mild punishment or no punishment at all and the male must just “take it like a man�.
Not programmed, attitudes will be impossible to change because men and women in general are that way by nature, that’s why.
And believe me, I am not happy about it.
Mini Me,
Maybe I just said that to Kenny because he was obviously upset, and I was trying to confort him. Some of the other responses to his post can only make him angrier, and that is no way to deal with the situation!
That excuse is almost clever, Samantha; but sorry you know very well what you meant and what were your thoughts, besides it’s obvious. Again, it’s really difficult for you to admit you were wrong, but don’t worry you are not alone, that is typical female. Oh, and saying “Mini MEâ€? to try draw attention away from your fault and because you are starting to get very angry over a little thing is typical female too.
She took a while to think of an excuse, haha. The first time you criticized her answer to Kenny she had no answer, but then you proved wrong that long speech of her in front of everyone and after that she thought real hard on an excuse. That’s funny. But don’t be hard on her; we should be gentle with ladies.
Mendel said—”The first time you criticized her answer to Kenny she had no answer”
Or maybe she just ignores idiots!
She dont ignore “them” or else she would ignore the second time too. The second time she really felt like she sould try to justify it. RVD Samantha!
mini mendel you should talk about using different names LMAO! Anyway I happen to be Samantha’s husband, and the only smart thing you have ever said is that men do protect their women!
No, you are Samantha, stop lying already. And nice try about “mini mendel”, but I dont need disguises like you to say what I mean.
KENNY DO THIS: Have your parents send an email to the School Board Superintendent (or whomever the top official is in your school system.
At the same time, they should send a registered letter with the same content.
At the same time, send an email or letter to the local news station.
– and watch the situation change almost immediately.
Ms. McManus, with all due respect, sportswriters are partially to blame for the double standards. As I mentioned previously, the NHL is the only men’s league to limit locker room access, with a 30 minute time limit which I believe was implimented this season. And lo and behold, sportswriters are upset about it, and are demanding unrestricted access! So why aren’t the same demands being made against the WNBA? The NHL, is not as popular as the other 3 major sports. Can you imagine the outcry from the media if the NFL, NBA. or MLB tried to set time limits? Reporters would never allow it!
SA, everyone already knows about reporters, you don’t need to convince people.
But you are wrong about the “Reporters would never allow it!�; don’t you mean “Reporters would never ACEPT IT/AGREE!�? Reporters don’t have the right or authority to ALLOW/FORBID!
Other sports need to take a tennis lesson! In Tennis reporters of both genders are allowed into the locker rooms of both genders.players are warned when a reporter of the opposite sex will be entering, and have plenty of time to cover up if they chose to do so. That’s the way it should be, reporters should not just barge into the locker rooms of the opposite sex without warning! I realize the original article here was about Jane McManus being denied access to a men’s locker room, but I assure you that is very rare in tennis
@Debbsy
That would be a step forward, but just a little step because it’s still wrong. Even if players chose not to “cover up�, players should not be allowed to do so; players are not at HOME, they are representing a team, representing a sport, representing society. And like I mentioned before, just the presence of the opposite sex in the locker room is wrong, and can lead to many “situations�. Reporters should NOT enter locker rooms.
Reporters especially but not only reporters, no female should be allowed in the male locker room and no male should be allowed in the female locker room, that is why different genders have separate locker rooms in the first place!!! If they are fully or only partially exposed doesn’t matter, it’s still not proper. To be civilized, interviews should be done when both(athletes and reporters) are fully dressed AND in a proper place(proper=not the locker room). That’s what other sports need to learn.
How anyone can think these female reporters have respect for the men is beyond me. They feign ignorance as to why men should have a problem with a bunch of women watching them shower and change. Well, why would women have a problem with the same situation – men being in their locker room when they shower and change?
As for only women being able to be professional and able to control themselves, this smacks of labeling every man a sexual predator and rapist. Take a look at the following articles (addresses at end of article) that demonstrate female professionalism in the locker room of the opposite sex.
Pattie Shea (1) demonstrates just why women need to be in the locker room specifically when the men are showering and changing.
Megan Dickson (2) writes another degrading article that no man would get away with writing about women, illustrating the double standards that women demand and expect.
Have we ever seen men write such perverted and degrading articles about women in the world of sport? Oh yes, that’s right, we wouldn’t dream of treating the female athletes the way we treat male athletes. I don’t get how a locker room policy that is good enough for men, is so drastically different for women’s sports. So long as the women get what they want, that’s all that matters, right. If these women are so professional, why does Jane Leavy (3) open her book by discussing all the different sizes of penises she has seen?
If males are so unprofessional, why do we allow male gynecologists, doctors, nurses, midwives, or even allow men on nudist beaches? These are all situations in which men are around women in various forms of undress, yet they are able to control themselves.
Compare the locker room policies between female and male athletes in the NBA and the WNBA respectively.
NBA – Locker rooms will be closed for 10 minutes after the game, then will open to all media for interviews and will remain open until the players have left.
WNBA – Locker rooms will be open for 10 minutes after the game, then will close for 30 minutes to allow the players to shower and change.
Anyone who thinks these policies are equal is seriously missing something. The policies are dependant on gender – one set of rules for one gender, a different set of rules for the other. This is the definition of discrimination. If the policy is good enough for the media in getting quotes and interviews from the female athletes, it should be good enough for the male athletes locker room. However, for some reason, the only time the media can get their quotes is when the men are showering and changing, not on the field after the game, or off the field after the game, or in a press room, or before they get changed, or after they get changed. Nope. Got to be when they are showering and changing. It’s a sport. Nobody is going to die if you don’t get a quote from a naked athlete.
Bob Hanna (4), Nick McAuley (5) and Murray Rothbard (6) have written some excellent articles about this topic, which remain ignored and unanswered (names linked to articles). Women simply can’t refute them – but why should they? These women seem to be so focused on ‘trail blazing’ that they have dismissed the issue of basic privacy and dignity that, conveniently, every female athlete can take for granted. They have been able to silence men’s objections and currently get everything their own way. The fact that the players have names for women who just go in to the locker room to look, known simply as ‘lookers’, again shows the blind and blatant perversion of the situation and should tell you something is wrong. However, degradation seems not to be a word we can use with men. They probably can’t believe they have been able to push through such a perverted and degrading double standard and have so many people believe they are simply being professional.
Jane Chastain’s (7) comment is as accurate today as it was when she first stated it –
‘I was never in favor of women going into men’s locker rooms… You still will not find any men demanding access… to the females’ dressing rooms. They have not allowed male reporters in there. And yet on the other side, in the male locker room, everyone is afraid to say no… I think it shows that men have more respect for women than sometimes women do for men… It makes me embarrassed for my sex, quite frankly.’
Why do women have so little respect for men, yet demand to be respected in return?
We encourage young women and girls to ‘break down the locker room barrier’ yet the barrier on the women’s locker room remains conveniently protected behind feminism and double standards. What message are we sending? That men don’t even have the basic human right to privacy, modesty and dignity and more? Is this something these trail blazers are proud of? I don’t believe I would be proud of my daughter if she grew up with such a lack or respect for the opposite sex.
It’s the men’s locker room, men are showering and changing, what do women not understand that they seem to be able to achieve crystal clarity on for the women’s locker room?
Equal Access. Equal locker room policies. Why has one of these statements been vehemently pursued, but the other aggressively opposed? Men HAVE complained about women in the locker room. The response was to sue the men until their voices were silenced.
The question remains unanswered. Would we ever treat women like this? Of course not.
THAT would be wrong, degrading and sexist.
(1) – http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/patti_shea.htm
(2) – http://orion.csuchico.edu/Pages/vol41issue13/sports/s.4.women.html
(3) – Squeeze play, a book by Jane Leavy
(4) – http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/07-99/07-09-99/d01sp104.htm
(5) – http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V141/N16/02-respect.16s.html
(6) – http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard73.html
(7) – http://www.amiannoying.com/2002/view.aspx?ID=6388
I think to a large degree the blame for this situation is being put on the wrong parties. All reporters have a right to equal access. You can’t blame them for wanting it. But yes it is a great invasion of privacy to allow opposite gender reporters into areas where men are changing even if many or most of them don’t care. Many do care and they shouldn’t be forced to change behind towels or in closets.
The people to blame are the owners who care only about maximum publicity and money. They certainly don’t care about the individual players unless they are superstars. With all the money in pro sports they could easily remodel the locker rooms so that there is an interview area upon entering and all else is private. It should have been done 30 years ago.
I personally couldn’t care less about the post game interviews in any event. They’re mostly banal and inane.
I’ve always wondered why men don’t receive privacy and respect, yet female athletes get 30 minutes closed locker room time to shower and change, which everybody is happy to adhere too.
Having one access policy for one gender and a completely different policy for another is the definition of discrimination. Its feminism gone too far to me. Women seem to think the men should have no problem with it. Well, would they if they were on the receiving end of this type of treatment? Somehow, I dont think so.
How about respecting men as much as we respect women. Or is that too much to ask for?
The female gender does not need access to a male locker room. Or visa versa. It is an invasion of privcy. Reporters do not have free rein to exploit our privacy and should start acting accordingly. Freedom of the press has become a cash flow competition. You don’t need to enter my shower to get your story. Have some sense of decency. Freedom of the press or organized gossip? Not in our bill of rights.
Equal access does not mean equality. Having the same access policy to the locker rooms of both genders and applying this to both male and female reporters is equality. Currently, only female athletes get privacy and respect.
As a woman who consistently seeks equality in this country, it is humiliating that female reporters set us back by continually being unable to find the same respect for men as they demand from men. I am repeatedly reminded of Jane Chastains statement on this topic –
‘I was never in favor of women going in to mens locker rooms…you still will not find any men demanding access to the female dressing room. They have not allowed male reporters in there. And yet on the other side, in the male locker room…everyone is afraid to say no. I think it shows men have more respect for women than sometimes women do for men…it make me embarrassed for my sex, quite frankly.’
Whilst women have a 30 minute period to shower and change and men do not, whilst women get respect and privacy – female sports, and female reporters, will still have a long way to go in terms of equality.
I don’t think “kristie� is a woman, they just don’t criticize themselves like that, they are just too weak in character to do so, it’s not in their nature. Women like Jane Chastains are very RARE. She is right, and don’t forget that women started demanding access to male locker rooms in the !!!!!!70s!!!!!!, I would like to see women reactions if male reporters demanded access to female locker rooms and in the !!!!!!70s!!!!!. And not to mention that at that time the showers area was perfectly visible from the locker room and male athletes were not expecting such an intrusion so they were caught completely naked in the locker room. Nowadays because of the continued harassment, sexual harassment, and because of the cameras, and the scandals; athletes were “forced� to ridiculous and humiliating maneuvers like using towels and others!
WOMEN like Jane Chastains can be found in the Eagle Forum Organization. All the leaders are female, just go see the “State leaders” link. If you want to see what they think about feminists and how they hurt women and society in general, go see the links “Feminism” and “Fathers”. In my view they are TRUE WOMEN that fight for TRUE EQUALITY, DIGNITY and VALUES!!!
The “Equal Access” policy regarding locker room interviews is completely unfair and anything but “equal”. That’s because it only applies to male athletes. Men’s locker rooms are open to both genders are have no time restrictions placed on them.(NBA) Female athletes locker rooms are either closed to the media or open only temporarily and with definite time limits. (20 minutes for the WNBA) Male locker rooms are only closed when the media decides they have no more interviews to do. This is usually after a couple of hours; long after every athlete has changed and showered. But for female athletes the locker room is purposefully closed after 20 minutes so “the athletes can change and shower in private”. Even if reporters are still conducting their interviews, they are forced to leave.This is a complete sexist double standard!The women only have to give interviews for 20 minutes, while fully clothed, then the media is pushed out so the women can change and shower in private. The men aren’t given this same luxury. It is the SAME parent company that owns both the NBA and WNBA. However, they distinctly created a different locker room policy depending on the gender of the athletes. THIS IS SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION! This policy difference allows female athletes greater rights of privacy and dignity ;male athletes are given no such consideration! Where is the “equality” in this?
But you won’t hear female reporters like Jane Mcmanus complain about this! Oh no, instead she will find the one (rare) circumstance when she is barred from a male locker room and complain about the “inequality” or “injustice” of it all. However, she is more than happy to keep her mouth shut about the numerous instances that occur every day where male reporters are barred from female locker rooms. You won’t hear her complain about the unfairness or double-standard of the WNBA/NBA policies. Where is the “fight for equal standards” and “fight for equal access” there?
Of course, she claims that these double-standards are the fault of the organizations, not the reporters. But it was female reporters like her, through their complaining and lawsuits, that got male locker rooms open to the media. And reporters like her, who DON’T complain about the unfairness/limited access to female athletes, are the reason why this access continues to be restricted. The organizations will only change their policies and make them fair when reporters start complaining and DEMANDING identical equal access to female athletes. Thus, it’s the reporters who really dictated these policies and are responsible for them. The situation is already unfair against men, yet women like her continue to complain only about rare restrictions placed on access to the male locker room and happily ignore all of the far more prevalent restrictions placed on access to female locker rooms.
What’s really needed to rectify this completely unfair and sexist situation is for a brave reporter to refuse to leave the WNBA locker room after the 20 minutes access period. To say that they are not finished with their interviews and will only leave when they are done. Once forcibly thrown out, this reporter needs to file a SEXUAL DISCRIMATION LAWSUIT against the NBA/WNBA parent company for employing a sexually discriminatory access policy based on the gender of their athletes. This policy limits reporters from being able to fully do their job when covering female athletes. Whatever policy the parent company of the NBA/WNBA has must, by law, be equal for all their athletes and not be modified by gender.Otherwise, the policy is sexually discriminatory and allows one gender of athletes greater privacy and modesty than the other gender.
The women of the WNBA are professional athletes and they want all of the benefits that the professional male athletes have, so it is their responsibility to provide the same access to the media as well. Since all of these sports organizations seem intent on giving women greater rights and standards of privacy than males, the only way to break this sexism is with a strong, unified lawsuit from the media. This hasn’t happened though because if a male reporter tried this he would be called a ‘pervert” or “voyeur”. People would say that he just wants to see the women naked. Society seems to respect women’s privacy and autonomy over who gets to see them naked. But when female reporters do this to break into the men’s locker rooms they love to claim it’s “part of their fight for equality”. Equal respect isn’t given to men’s privacy or to men’s right over their bodies. It’s funny though that these hypocritical female reporters (who MUST get into male locker rooms after the game to do their job) have no problem patiently interviewing female athletes outside their locker room. Suddenly getting that important quote is no longer such a big deal. They will happily wait for the women to dress. They also have no problem about a 20 minute restriction on access to WNBA athletes, but if you reversed the situation they would be up in arms. Why doesn’t Jane Mcmanus, who makes a big deal out of the one time she was restricted from a male locker room, complain about the numerous restrictions to female athletes locker rooms that exist everywhere? It seems such limited access and sexist locker room policies, when they involve female athletes, don’t bother her at all. She doesn’t complain about this. Maybe it’s because there is no “eye candy incentive” to induce female reporters to push for this type of equality. When they talk about “equal access” it’s only the MALE locker rooms that they really want open equally to both genders.
So it’s obvious that the current state of locker room access is not fair, and “equal access” policies are not really applied equally to BOTH genders. It’s males who are really the victims of discrimination, even though females (such as female sports reporters) are the biggest complainers about discrimination. Whatever policy does exist in sports regarding media access should be applied identically to all athletes of both genders! The days of women being giving “special standards” and special treatment must come to an end. People have to rise up and start filing lawsuits against all of these organizations and force them to make their access policies identical in every way for athletes of both genders.
Kelly,
Excellent post and well written. You highlighted the blatant double standard and how it has been influenced by female reporters for the last 30 years. However, I feel your efforts will be in vain and your words of wisdom will fall on the deaf ears of people like Jane McManus and her peers.
As Steve Mcauley stated – For true equality, women’s sports DO have a long way to go.
Great analysis Kelly,
In addition it needs to be pointed out that the 10 minute cooling off period is not enough time for all the athletes to shower. As in most locker rooms you wait your turn, you walk to the shower naked, you walk out to pick up your towel naked. Sports reporters act as if you take the towel into the shower and hide behind it. Some locker rooms have open showers that face the dressing area. I don’t see any privacy here. If this has to be the standard then women should do the same. I am sure there are some women who would strut around naked liking the publicity. “The Double Standard”
@kelly
Great speech, you are totally right. In my opinion there should be the equality just like you described so well, but there should NOT be allowed anyone of the opposite sex in the locker rooms, especially reporters; just read all my other comments above and you will understand why.
Once again, I don’t think you are female, one of the reason is your speech is too logical. And your comment will most probably be deleted. It was not deleted already because Jane is off this blog for a long time now. The last time she visited this forum was about a month ago and just to delete someone’s comment on how female reporters discussed male athlete’s naked bodies with their curious friends and family, and that guy knew what he was talking about. She deleted that comment, but she did nothing about the comment of “clothingclothes� which is pure spam! Interesting priorities and motivations she has, aren’t they?
Re-reading Ms McManus posts, her primary defence of this double standard appears to be that female reporters are professional and females in the medical profession see men naked all the time.
My simple answer to this is that many men work in the medical profession and see naked women all the time. I have a friend who is an OB/GYN and he never talks about his work. No guessing what he sees, though.
As for professionalism, is McManus suggesting that men simply aren’t able to be as professional as her in the locker room of the opposite sex? Why is it always an issue of women seeing men naked, but never a question regarding male reporters seeing women naked?
I believe the answer is that policies for womens locker rooms are different, being that they give all the women ample time to shower and change with privacy and respect.
Equal access is not equality. Equal policies is equality.
In the great majority of cases, the explanation for this behavior is actually quite simple:
There are people that know very well that what they are doing/supporting is wrong. But they are not the ones being offended/violated, and the situation is convenient for them. They are people with no sense of decency, with low standards, selfish, and insensitive. They know they are in the wrong but still give arguments to try to justify their actions; it is extremely irritating and even nauseating.
I recommend the book “Squeeze Play� by Jane Leavy, a former sportswriter.
She opens her book by discussing all the different sizes of penises she has seen! As a sportswriter she sure was busy “observing�, is that professional or what?! And is it professional to TALK or to write about it? And male sportswriters are the ones that would not act professionally in the female locker rooms.
This is just one of many many more.
Male sportswriters would certainly look at and enjoy to see naked female athletes, they are only human. Male sportswriters would most likely talk about what they saw with other men ONLY. But male sportswriters would never ever write newspaper articles or books about it, that is just too unprofessional, and to tell you the truth…to write about it is not so smart either!
“Women on the outside, again�
In the past there was never any kind of discrimination against anyone; women(female reporters) were not allowed in the male locker room just like men(male reporters) were not allowed in the female locker room. Male athletes were not sexual harassed by reporters of the opposite sex, and female athletes were not sexually harassed by reporters of the opposite sex. That is equal treatment/standards me.
The discrimination started the moment female reporters were allowed in the male locker room, DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MALE REPORTERS AND AGAINST MALE ATHLETES.
1. Discrimination against male athletes ONLY because when it started, female sports were insignificant/uninteresting, and that means ONLY males were the target of sexual harassment from female reporters. Feminazi knew that equal access rights to both male and female reporters would only hurt men, never women.
Discrimination against male athletes ONLY because even now that female sports are not so insignificant/uninteresting anymore, the rules were made different for female athletes, female athletes privacy/dignity is protected.
2. Discrimination against male reporters ONLY because they are the ONLY ones that face obstacles and restrictions to enter female locker rooms; and because male reporters are not considered professional enough to handle themselves properly in the presence of nude female athletes.
Don’t you play victim, MALES are the only victims.
What Jane McManus has failed to answer throughout this entire blog is:why are women in male locker rooms and men are not in women’s locker rooms. Isn’t there one weeping female federal judge who will open the doors to women’s pro locker rooms.
When will Jane start publishing articles about the need to get in there and get the story from naked women. Then there will be stories of women throwing bra’s at men and maybe even a lawsuit about “mind rape”.
Dave, Jane McManus has failed to answer many things, and she was not even aware that there are different policies for athletes’ gender based, and she is in the business for 8 years now, and that is ridiculous.
That reminds me, there was a recent movie(a comedy, the name of the movie is on file but I don’t feel like searching for it now) that involved a few scenes of female reporters in locker rooms. The AWSM president was commenting on the movie, and said that female reporters don’t behave like that, and that if a female reporter gets in a love affair with an athlete then she should be fired. But then she PROMPTLY AND IMMEDIATELY said that it could easily happen to a male reporter, which is very funny because how can it happen to a male reporter get in an affair with a female athlete if they are not allowed in there much less to see them naked??? Why didn’t she promptly and immediately talk about the double standards against men??? Is the AWSM looking for equality, or is the AWSM nothing but one more feminist=feminazi association?
I also have on file several old cases of players’ wives verbally fighting with female reporters. In one of the cases, a wife was waiting OUTSIDE the locker room and when she saw a female reporter coming out of from INSIDE the locker room she said something like “did you like what you saw, aggressively�, the female reporter replied “I only saw their eyes, I know their colors�(yeah, sure!), then several players closed their eyes and asked her “what are the color of our eyes then?�. Ridiculous! Are the wives chauvinistic males too?
Another funny story, is of a little kid that thought a female reporter was mistaken and said to her something like “lady, lady, you can not be here, this is only for boys�, is the little child a chauvinistic male too?
In Europe, reporters are not allowed inside the locker room, there have been very rare exceptions but has a rule reporters are not allowed especially when they start to undress. Only in America such weird thingS are allowed and common, Americans are very well known for their excesses and totally lack of common sense. And I think that in this case, they are allowed inside mostly because of money issues, being such a capitalist sick nation, I am surprised you people don’t sell your mothers. Get a little sense of decency and get help(mental help).
Actually, the Supreme Court ruled that the right to privacy overrides the right of equality in this case, and that reporters are not allowed inside the locker room of the opposite sex. However, it was proved in court that the right to privacy would not be violated if they make major physical changes in the locker room, and that is the only reason why the court mandated that equal access was ok.
Those physical changes to the locker rooms were never done, and in my opinion no changes would guaranty total privacy. The courts don’t make laws…the courts only decide according to the current Law, and the law can be altered and it should be altered to make some exceptions in case privacy is at risk, that would be the decent think to do and it would be evolution.
Stepahn, never heard of this Supreme court decision.
Can you give a reference to it?
It would certainly change this whole topic.
You failed to convince me big time. There are only two kinds of female sport reports, to enter male locker rooms you are unscrupulous or perverted, that’s what it takes to do that “job�.
No matter what you do, if the opposite sex is allowed inside a place like the locker room then privacy is always compromised.
I whish some day an athlete or a group of athletes would have the courage and would take the time and effort to sue the leagues for allowing reporters entering the locker room; but not only female reporters, I mean all reporters, that will work for sure. It should have been that way since female reporters started demanding equal access, from that moment they all equally should wait outside! That’s the only answer, I mean by starting allowing female reporters too, they changed a situation that was already bad into a much much worse situation!!!
And all the other opposite sex workers and team members too, it’s totally unacceptable and unnecessary.
Well some of these comments have gotten so far afield it’s nice to come full circle. The USTA has decided to close both locker rooms to reporters and open an area elsewhere such as the player dining area. Some tennis reporters, such as Bud Collins, see this as a step backwards because reporters get better access to players in other professional sports.
This may surprise some, but I didn’t have a problem with it at all. As long as we are still able to approach players for comments in other areas of the Billie Jean King National Tennis Center, we will be able to do our jobs.
In the end, I think this will actually make it easier for reporters, men and women, to cover tennis equally. Before women were kept out of the men’s lockers and men out of the women’s. It meant that your gender had an impact on what you were able to report. This will level the playing field for all practical purposes, which was exactly my issue from the first post.
Well that’s a good solution Jane.
I only wish all of professional sports ( and collegiate sports too for that matter) would do the same and ban all reporters from locker rooms no matter the gender. I’ve seen it said that it’s done that way in Europe. The post game interviews are among the least interesting sports commentaries anyway. Most players find them intrusive at the best. Only the owners profit from it. They could easily arrange neutral interview areas.
Jane,
Do you believe male athletes will receive the same level of repsect and privacy as female athletes in the future? Do you believe that eventually they will get the same closed locker room policy when showering and changing that the female athletes currently enjoy?
I believe we will only continue to extend equality when it benefits women and rarely when it stands to benefit men. Male reporters would be stoned to death if they entered the locker room of the opposite sex the way female reporters do. I agree with everything Kelly wrote on March 16th.
James,
As far as the U.S. Open goes, male and female reporters have the same press pass allowing them access to the same places. Male and female athletes are subject to the same policies and afforded the same privacy as well.
As for other sports, those leagues set the policy, not the reporters. And in both women’s and men’s sports, both the male and female reporters must be given the same rights, according to a Supreme Court decision.
And any type of equality that affects men and women differently doesn’t seem to me to fit the definition, as you can see from my above comment on the new U.S. Open closed locker policy.
‘As far as the U.S. Open goes, male and female reporters have the same press pass allowing them access to the same places. Male and female athletes are subject to the same policies and afforded the same privacy as well’
I have no problem with this, as it is the first time there has actually been equality. The same policy applied to male and female reporters for male and female locker rooms.
‘As for other sports, those leagues set the policy, not the reporters’
This must be the most hypocritical and selfish statement I have ever heard on this topic. Women sued to establish these exact policies. They repeatedly sued in order to establish equal access as equality, when it clearly has nothing to do with equality. Having the same access policy for male and female locker rooms that is applied equaly to male and female reporters is equality. That is why I support the US Open in what they have done. Your simply hiding behind the same old statement to rid yourself of the need to fight for real equality, even though men have clearly supported womens equality. I think it shows your only interested in equality when it suits you, like most other women in this field, and you have no interest in establishing rights or respect for men. You conveniently washing your hands of discrimination against men when it is female reporters and feminist pressure that has brought this about. Female reporters knew fine well that men would never sue to be in the womens locker room when they were showering and changing. They have more respect than that.
‘And in both women’s and men’s sports, both the male and female reporters must be given the same rights, according to a Supreme Court decision’
However, giving male and female athletes equal respect and privacy seems to be something women are not interested in as it would actualy establish equality for men – removing a perk that many female reporters obviously enjoy, such as Patti Shea.
‘And any type of equality that affects men and women differently doesn’t seem to me to fit the definition, as you can see from my above comment on the new U.S. Open closed locker policy’
You will continue, though, to only highlight discrimination against women as evidenced by this blog, ignoring glaring double standards in access policies which are clearly gender dependant. Only Jane Chastain has received my grudging admiration for telling it how it is. She is the only woman to date to say anything about this sexism against men. Most women have simply not had the inclination to address it, let alone stand up for equality on it –
‘I was never in favor of women going in to mens locker rooms…you still will not find any men demanding access to the female dressing room. They have not allowed male reporters in there. And yet on the other side, in the male locker room…everyone is afraid to say no. I think it shows men have more respect for women than sometimes women do for men…it make me embarrassed for my sex, quite frankly.’ – Jane Chastain
You demomstrated your ignorance on January 11th, when you didn’t know the massive difference between NBA and WNBA policy – that giving women time to shower and change, but not the men. Again, I agree with Kellys post. Only women have wanted to be in the locker room of the opposite sex when the players are showering and changing. Most people, including many on this board, will continue to label you for what you are – nothing more than a sexist pervert who ignorantly touts a degrading double standard as equality.
http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/patti_shea.htm
http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/07-99/07-09-99/d01sp104.htm
http://www.usc.edu/student-affairs/dt/V141/N16/02-respect.16s.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard73.html
One argument for this policy that I have acknowledged – mens sports are hugely more popular than female sports, perhaps generating more demand for coverage and competition. I do not believe, however, that this should justify repealing one of the most fundamental rights in society, bodily privacy from the opposite sex, for one gender and not the other.
No Jane, your issue from the first post was not all reporters out of the locker rooms like it’s done in the rest of the World except in the USA. Your issue was all reporters inside the locker rooms, not to mention you ignorance about the different unfair treatment that men get, and that you didn’t seem to mind anyway because you are not a man, which is typical of women.
But I’m glad you learned and changed your mind, and to tell you the truth…I was not expecting that to be possible, so yes I am surprised. Congratulations.
I predicted this! Let me guess, that change in tennis happened because female athletes started complaining. Things only change when females start to feel just a small sample of the offensive humiliation male athletes have endured for decades. When are only men being abused, then no problem, no change needed.
Anyway, it’s great to see some sense, finally; other sports should do the same, only then everyone of every sex and profession will be fully respected and will be able to do and to enjoy their jobs. Everyone has to gain with this new policy, it’s a win-win situation for both sexes, female privacy is respected and male privacy is respected, again win-win, that’s why there must be exceptions in the workplace in the rare occasions when bodily privacy issues exist.
Civilization is finally arriving to America!
My guess is that most women reporters would rather do interviews out of the locker room if they had equal access with the male reporters. Any comment on this Jane? So it is a win win situation in tennis. The testosterone laden atmosphere of the NFL and NBA locker rooms is not a comfortable place for most women to be.
Still and all it is the leagues that are at fault here, not the reporters. They’re the ones who put the pressure on the guys to accept it. The truth is still that most players don’t care or have long learned to accept it as part of their otherwise privileged life. If the players really cared, concerted effort on their part would put a stop to the practice of women reporters in changing areas within a season.
Some good points, cd.
Remember, however, that many male athletes and coaches protested this degrading double standard when female reporters first demanded it. Sam Wyche is one referenced in Murray Rothbards article in my above post.
The problem was that womens rights to ‘equality’ superceded mens rights to equality – again. The female reporters were not after the same media access policies that were in effect for female locker rooms – they demanded to be in the mens locker room only when the players were showering and changing. Its interesting that not one female reporter has ever written a blog/article about these glaring differences.
I believe giving male and female athletes the same right to privacy whilst subsequently giving male and female reporters the same access is the only definition of equality.